I'm almost 18 and I've only been to 1 dance and it was awkward. I've never danced with a girl. Heck, I don't even know how to dance. So this article totally describes me.
However, I do have a story: When I was in 7th grade I liked a girl that was way above my level and didn't wanna tell her, and my friend told me I was being a wimp. So the next day I tapped her on the shoulder and told her straight up. No middleman or note or nothing. And even though she said no (and she was nice about it), I remember the feeling afterward was like nothing else. It was like humility from rejection plus a sense of accomplishment for still having the guts to do it.
Then I heard this adult on the radio talking about how she's too afraid to tell this guy she likes him, and I'm like BRUH...I'm 12! Telling a girl you like her is way easier than people make it out to be. If she's the right girl, she won't think less of you for it (and if she does, she's not the right girl).
So guys, we need to surround ourselves with more dances and pushy friends.
Many questions that came to mind after reading this piece.
- Who teaches young men and women to dance in America? No one comes out of the womb able to partner dance without some instruction
- Are parents teaching their children to dance?
- Is cultural transmission in America today deliberate or passive?
- Who teaches young men that they should pursue marriage?
- Who teaches young women that they should be open to marriage?
I don't see the point of laying blame on young men when no one has provided them with clear cultural instructions on when and how to pursue women and ultimately marry them. No one in America offers a clear blueprint. Everything cultural is deemed to be subjective and up to the individual.
I don't know that anyone, outside professional dance classes, teaches dancing. Same with music. Schools are reluctant to fund anything which isn't vocational. (One reason I left vocational education.) My parents never danced, at least while I lived at home. While my wife likes music and dance I don't enjoy either.
US culture is fragmented. No one agrees on what US culture is. Political conservatives have rejected historic ideals without offering anything constructive.
The consequences have gotten much heavier, and the success rate has fallen much further down. No one plays a game unless they win at least a certain small percentage of the time. Women have blasted men so hard and honestly will just present themselves to the men they want; there is no “winning her over”.
Now in the circumstances you’re talking about, part of what’s changed in the church is socially it’s more like extended family and nobody is getting married out of high school. What’s the risk and reward? If relationships of any romantic level are off the table at that age, why bother?
There’s two parts to this equation and until we start addressing the female side we’re just spinning our wheels.
Last point first: Well no, it’s degeneration not evolution. Societies that organize themselves like this are primitive, poor, and violent.
To the first point, sure, it’s just the odds have gotten worse. Only advice I have for anyone is trust God for everything, which we should be doing anyway; so in a way nothing has changed.
I'm an older guy (just turned 40) but I have a story which is emblematic of one aspect of this problem. I really liked this woman at my church and several men encouraged me to ask her out. I thought it was a bad idea since I wasn't getting signals that she liked me back. I ended up asking her out and she said no. I didn't mind the rejection (I expected a no) but as a result, she was awkward around me for the next six months. It was like I had leprosy. You need to understand that this was a very small church and so her awkwardness around me had a significant impact on the group dynamic. I felt like I was being punished for daring to ask her out. I'm far less likely to ask a woman out within my own church because of this experience.
Pascal said we have mathematical and intuitive minds and we need both. We have taught everyone for decades in the church to basically ignore the intuitive side, so they go into social situations, where intuition is king, and try to be analytical which doesn’t work.
Competence breeds courage. Reading a room, thinking about what others are thinking and feeling, what they’d like to feel, can be taught.
I wonder if it has something to do with texting. None of the kids has a boyfriend/ girlfriend but they will spend hours texting each other- planning their future together, saying how much they love each other and other very intimate and sexual things - but won’t dance with each other in gym class.
I’ve seen this in our Classical Christian school. Five hours of dance is required for high school Phys Ed. It never occurred to us that when male students were asked to partner up we had to explain that we meant partner up with a girl. They all partnered up with other boys!
Girls also need instruction too. Movies and TV seem to show the sassy, mean girl getting the guy and girls don’t seem to realize that’s not real.
Casino Royale? Are we discussing the OG, because I don’t think I can forget Miss Green’s face as she slid into the seat opposite Daniel Craig and said “I’m the money”
Many young men chose not to initiate because they feel most girls aren’t worth it. Whether that’s cope is another matter, but as a fairly outgoing young man I think it has a solid foundation.
I'm almost 18 and I've only been to 1 dance and it was awkward. I've never danced with a girl. Heck, I don't even know how to dance. So this article totally describes me.
However, I do have a story: When I was in 7th grade I liked a girl that was way above my level and didn't wanna tell her, and my friend told me I was being a wimp. So the next day I tapped her on the shoulder and told her straight up. No middleman or note or nothing. And even though she said no (and she was nice about it), I remember the feeling afterward was like nothing else. It was like humility from rejection plus a sense of accomplishment for still having the guts to do it.
Then I heard this adult on the radio talking about how she's too afraid to tell this guy she likes him, and I'm like BRUH...I'm 12! Telling a girl you like her is way easier than people make it out to be. If she's the right girl, she won't think less of you for it (and if she does, she's not the right girl).
So guys, we need to surround ourselves with more dances and pushy friends.
Many questions that came to mind after reading this piece.
- Who teaches young men and women to dance in America? No one comes out of the womb able to partner dance without some instruction
- Are parents teaching their children to dance?
- Is cultural transmission in America today deliberate or passive?
- Who teaches young men that they should pursue marriage?
- Who teaches young women that they should be open to marriage?
I don't see the point of laying blame on young men when no one has provided them with clear cultural instructions on when and how to pursue women and ultimately marry them. No one in America offers a clear blueprint. Everything cultural is deemed to be subjective and up to the individual.
Bingo. These days, no two singles have the same expectations about dating and marriage, so it's a wonder *anyone* gets together.
I don't know that anyone, outside professional dance classes, teaches dancing. Same with music. Schools are reluctant to fund anything which isn't vocational. (One reason I left vocational education.) My parents never danced, at least while I lived at home. While my wife likes music and dance I don't enjoy either.
US culture is fragmented. No one agrees on what US culture is. Political conservatives have rejected historic ideals without offering anything constructive.
The consequences have gotten much heavier, and the success rate has fallen much further down. No one plays a game unless they win at least a certain small percentage of the time. Women have blasted men so hard and honestly will just present themselves to the men they want; there is no “winning her over”.
Now in the circumstances you’re talking about, part of what’s changed in the church is socially it’s more like extended family and nobody is getting married out of high school. What’s the risk and reward? If relationships of any romantic level are off the table at that age, why bother?
There’s two parts to this equation and until we start addressing the female side we’re just spinning our wheels.
"Women have blasted men so hard and honestly will just present themselves to the men they want; there is no “winning her over”."
That begs the question: does the average man have any kind of chance? Is this just evolution in action, women choosing the top mates?
Last point first: Well no, it’s degeneration not evolution. Societies that organize themselves like this are primitive, poor, and violent.
To the first point, sure, it’s just the odds have gotten worse. Only advice I have for anyone is trust God for everything, which we should be doing anyway; so in a way nothing has changed.
I'm an older guy (just turned 40) but I have a story which is emblematic of one aspect of this problem. I really liked this woman at my church and several men encouraged me to ask her out. I thought it was a bad idea since I wasn't getting signals that she liked me back. I ended up asking her out and she said no. I didn't mind the rejection (I expected a no) but as a result, she was awkward around me for the next six months. It was like I had leprosy. You need to understand that this was a very small church and so her awkwardness around me had a significant impact on the group dynamic. I felt like I was being punished for daring to ask her out. I'm far less likely to ask a woman out within my own church because of this experience.
Just occurred that was the most accurate part of the show; when you’re that guy, like Jack Reacher, women just present themselves to them.
I was friendly with a guy like that, when you are that guy women just walk up and wait for a break in conversation to shoot their shot.
I made a separate comment for a separate issue…
Pascal said we have mathematical and intuitive minds and we need both. We have taught everyone for decades in the church to basically ignore the intuitive side, so they go into social situations, where intuition is king, and try to be analytical which doesn’t work.
Competence breeds courage. Reading a room, thinking about what others are thinking and feeling, what they’d like to feel, can be taught.
I wonder how this might be related to the decline in male testosterone levels over the last several decades.
I wonder if it has something to do with texting. None of the kids has a boyfriend/ girlfriend but they will spend hours texting each other- planning their future together, saying how much they love each other and other very intimate and sexual things - but won’t dance with each other in gym class.
I’ve seen this in our Classical Christian school. Five hours of dance is required for high school Phys Ed. It never occurred to us that when male students were asked to partner up we had to explain that we meant partner up with a girl. They all partnered up with other boys!
Girls also need instruction too. Movies and TV seem to show the sassy, mean girl getting the guy and girls don’t seem to realize that’s not real.
"Five hours of dance is required for high school Phys Ed." Why?
Casino Royale? Are we discussing the OG, because I don’t think I can forget Miss Green’s face as she slid into the seat opposite Daniel Craig and said “I’m the money”
Many young men chose not to initiate because they feel most girls aren’t worth it. Whether that’s cope is another matter, but as a fairly outgoing young man I think it has a solid foundation.