Brother I appreciate your heart to help marriages. Please carefully consider a tragic statistic which concerns the fact that the rate of pain during sex is highest in women in evangelical marriages, highly connected to feeling obligated/pressured. Please see research https://substack.com/@baremarriage?r=4ijym&utm_medium=ios&utm_source=profile
It’s essential that Scripture is never used as a tool to wield power. That will kill the intimacy right there, not because the woman is manipulative, but because God has designed her to be sensitive and need tenderness and understanding, especially from the man they are entrusting their heart to.
It's strange to me how you read St. Paul's clear words, "I wish that all were as I myself am. But each has his own gift from God, one of one kind and one of another," and conclude something that he doesn't say. He doesn't say the "gift of celibacy" is rare, at least not extremely. Paul simply expresses his desire for people to be celibate because it will allow them to be closer to God, but laments the fact that people generally lack of self-control.
In fact, Paul only prescribes frequent marital intimacy to those who lack self-control. So if the Christian life is about *gaining* self-control, becoming less reliant on sensual pleasure, detaching from "the things of the world," then that needs to be addressed as well. God designed us biologically to detach from sexual pleasure as we age, and a common cause of sorrow for people as they get older seems to be their inability to let go of that "youthful passion." This is something I rarely see Protestants address.
How many supposedly Christian men treat their wives as an object whose sole function is the husband’s sexual release, rather than an heir together with them of the grace of life, worthy of respect and recognition of their equal dignity?
Probably fewer than you would think from reading internet comment boxes. But it’s still a lot.
Thank you for stressing mutuality and your desire to be both tender and thorough through scripture.
I think there is value in taking this up a level. The discipline of chastity—loving a chaste life—applies both to single and married. My organs and desires didn’t just appear when I got married, and ignoring or indulging them in singleness only sets one up for the same pattern in marriage. Theology of the Body with Christopher West has some incredible insights, even if you don’t subscribe to everything it teaches—at minimum still thought provoking!
in marriage, there are often times and seasons where that part of the relationship simply isn’t feasible. Extended bouts of depression, illness, exhaustion, caregiving, can sap that energy. Painful (emotionally or physically) need to be explored with curiosity as that isn’t the norm and empower either spouse to say “this hurts, I need to stop. Can we refocus on connecting a different way?” The solution could be counseling, education, medication, physical therapy, or a host of other options.
Lastly, I think it is important to spend time together in physical intimacy but that doesn’t only mean sexual. I encourage you to check out some of the recent work by Sheila in her book “the marriage you want”.
I read this article with fascination coming from a Roman Catholic perspective, lots of similarities in our views on sexual morality but some real differences as well. In the Catholic faith men and women are called to celibacy (priests, brothers, nuns, consecrated virgins, etc) but it is normal for them to have a healthy sex drive. By no means is it expected that a man considering the priesthood for example, would not have a desire for sex, that desire is given up for something greater.
I made a podcast about the sexual manipulation deception this might explain a few things. Warp ladies minds and the men will follow. Added show notes so you can jump.
Sorry, won't be watching the podcast. I'm sure it's fantastic, though. However, in my experience, mens minds are usually warped first, as their sex drive in adolescence is strong, with testosterone flooding their bloodstream every 15 min. As a result, it's almost always on their minds and it proves a very difficult way to avoid porn which is now easily accessible and increasingly degenerate and degrading .Oh, I know, girls have their problems: a naivete about their bodies, undue focus on their appearance, a fascination w their power over young men sexually, and more. These are my impressions after more than a decade of college ministry.
In regards to the at least once a month rule, I’ve always felt that advice was more for two insanely busy people constantly exhausted by a very busy life. Sort of, if you have 8 kids, once a month hire a babysitter and go out to dinner and get a room at a hotel for a night, and make it a priority because your relationship will suffer otherwise.
Brother I appreciate your heart to help marriages. Please carefully consider a tragic statistic which concerns the fact that the rate of pain during sex is highest in women in evangelical marriages, highly connected to feeling obligated/pressured. Please see research https://substack.com/@baremarriage?r=4ijym&utm_medium=ios&utm_source=profile
It’s essential that Scripture is never used as a tool to wield power. That will kill the intimacy right there, not because the woman is manipulative, but because God has designed her to be sensitive and need tenderness and understanding, especially from the man they are entrusting their heart to.
That article could have been written about me
Yes, I think the word defraud is much better. It much more reflects the Greek and is dramatically more of an attack on modern culture.
It's strange to me how you read St. Paul's clear words, "I wish that all were as I myself am. But each has his own gift from God, one of one kind and one of another," and conclude something that he doesn't say. He doesn't say the "gift of celibacy" is rare, at least not extremely. Paul simply expresses his desire for people to be celibate because it will allow them to be closer to God, but laments the fact that people generally lack of self-control.
In fact, Paul only prescribes frequent marital intimacy to those who lack self-control. So if the Christian life is about *gaining* self-control, becoming less reliant on sensual pleasure, detaching from "the things of the world," then that needs to be addressed as well. God designed us biologically to detach from sexual pleasure as we age, and a common cause of sorrow for people as they get older seems to be their inability to let go of that "youthful passion." This is something I rarely see Protestants address.
This is such a good comment. And a much better paradigm for what Paul meant.
How many supposedly Christian women withhold sex as a weapon to control their husbands?
Probably the same as men to women.
How many supposedly Christian men treat their wives as an object whose sole function is the husband’s sexual release, rather than an heir together with them of the grace of life, worthy of respect and recognition of their equal dignity?
Probably fewer than you would think from reading internet comment boxes. But it’s still a lot.
Maybe because there’s nothing in it for them. If it’s mutually pleasurable for both frequency isn’t a problem.
I have to disagree here. Hormones and fatigue can make it very difficult to get into it, even if it is ultimately an enjoyable experience.
Thank you for stressing mutuality and your desire to be both tender and thorough through scripture.
I think there is value in taking this up a level. The discipline of chastity—loving a chaste life—applies both to single and married. My organs and desires didn’t just appear when I got married, and ignoring or indulging them in singleness only sets one up for the same pattern in marriage. Theology of the Body with Christopher West has some incredible insights, even if you don’t subscribe to everything it teaches—at minimum still thought provoking!
in marriage, there are often times and seasons where that part of the relationship simply isn’t feasible. Extended bouts of depression, illness, exhaustion, caregiving, can sap that energy. Painful (emotionally or physically) need to be explored with curiosity as that isn’t the norm and empower either spouse to say “this hurts, I need to stop. Can we refocus on connecting a different way?” The solution could be counseling, education, medication, physical therapy, or a host of other options.
Lastly, I think it is important to spend time together in physical intimacy but that doesn’t only mean sexual. I encourage you to check out some of the recent work by Sheila in her book “the marriage you want”.
I read this article with fascination coming from a Roman Catholic perspective, lots of similarities in our views on sexual morality but some real differences as well. In the Catholic faith men and women are called to celibacy (priests, brothers, nuns, consecrated virgins, etc) but it is normal for them to have a healthy sex drive. By no means is it expected that a man considering the priesthood for example, would not have a desire for sex, that desire is given up for something greater.
Anytime someone starts talking about "frequency", I'm a little wary, since life circumstances vary greatly, but I agree with your general notes. I wanted to add to this conversation by sharing a link to a recent post I wrote: https://thegentlenudge.substack.com/p/total-self-gift-a-necessity-in-married?r=2k266z
Month is an outlier? How about years?
I don't mean to whine, but where was this article years ago. Well done, thank you!
This was concise, well stated, and revealed some true wisdom regarding this matter. Thank you.
I made a podcast about the sexual manipulation deception this might explain a few things. Warp ladies minds and the men will follow. Added show notes so you can jump.
https://open.substack.com/pub/soberchristiangentlemanpodcast/p/s2-ep-53-sexual-manipulation-deception?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android&r=31s3eo
Warp ladies' minds? Not the reverse order due to porn? Hmm...
I explain in the podcast. Everyone gets warped.
Sorry, won't be watching the podcast. I'm sure it's fantastic, though. However, in my experience, mens minds are usually warped first, as their sex drive in adolescence is strong, with testosterone flooding their bloodstream every 15 min. As a result, it's almost always on their minds and it proves a very difficult way to avoid porn which is now easily accessible and increasingly degenerate and degrading .Oh, I know, girls have their problems: a naivete about their bodies, undue focus on their appearance, a fascination w their power over young men sexually, and more. These are my impressions after more than a decade of college ministry.
It is audio. Best wishes.
Well said. Thank you, Foster.
I’ve really liked this book on this topic.
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/6550416-when-two-become-one?ac=1&from_search=true&qid=3gEks5zCrF&rank=3
In regards to the at least once a month rule, I’ve always felt that advice was more for two insanely busy people constantly exhausted by a very busy life. Sort of, if you have 8 kids, once a month hire a babysitter and go out to dinner and get a room at a hotel for a night, and make it a priority because your relationship will suffer otherwise.
This is the way!